Serendipidy,

Is this the video that you mean?

2006 UK Professional Finals 2-2

jj

Hi serendipity
I must take issue with something you said about 'blaming teachers' for too many variations...
If you look at the link put up by jj (i'm not sure this is the comp you were referring to) you will see these top guys adapting and improvising to avoid others, and to keep a clear space for themselves.
You only get good at this by working through and developing a wide range of figures and movements. Doesn't mean you have to use these in every comp.
It's the very same with learning to play a musical instrument - you learn with a wide range of musical types - classical, jazz, Scott joplin - the whole lot. That develops skills.
i'm sure you've experienced the fact that the more you learn, the more quickly you can learn new things.
Even at my level, we have a fairly good repertoire at foxtrot, and most of it i don't use in comps, but when we're in trouble i can (on a good day ) find something from somewhere without thinking about it.
Actually i don't have this in tango, and i suffer for it.

Phil . A skilled seasoned competitor will not do that much in the 64 bars of music. They will repeat. I have put this on before. I have a tape of William Pino in an early round at Blackpool. The camera stays with him and in 12 bars of Waltz does the same group three times. The rest of us think we have to do every move there is. All in one minute thirty. The one that I mentioned last week on the crowded floor can be seen by going to Superior Ballroom . Events scrapbook and there are two to look at. If you are quick you will notice Timothy Howson take a bit of a near collision.
A good one on Foxtrot to watch is Luca and Lorain's Slow Foxtrot Demo. Its the one on a Vinal squares floor. Check the alignments from corner to corner . You will find they are spot on.

Hi Serendipity
I think you just reinforced what i said earlier. Yes, they don't do much, but they can if they have to.
Pino almost certainly realised that in the early rounds he only had to stand up and look good.

"Phil . A skilled seasoned competitor will not do that much in the 64 bars of music. They will repeat. I have put this on before. I have a tape of William Pino in an early round at Blackpool. The camera stays with him and in 12 bars of Waltz does the same group three times. The rest of us think we have to do every move there is."

I had this discussion with one of my coaches recently. I pointed out that I'd much rather do a classic characteristic foxtrot sequence like the big boys do on their videos, instead of our more syncopated first wall.

He pointed out that we don't dance it sublimely enough to win that way. I may not like our opening as it seems like avoiding the ultimate challenge of the transparent figures, but as the coach pointed out, it's exciting and it moves a lot.

And that's why you see a lot of the choreography you do in the middle ranks of competition. Beginners and masters can compete basics. Those in between should work on them, but realistically they may not be the best show they can put on in a competition.

Maybe we should have more high level restricted figures events to promote such mastery?

Phil.f you can find your way to Luca where he is dancing to a Japanese Tune on a squared vinal floor. What do you think of the content of his sixteen bar routine. Do you think it was enough. Was he maybe sending a message that you don't need all ; as well as the kitchen sink. There was no Fallaways or Tumble Turns. Not even a Double Reverse . But was it good or wasn't it. You might like to watch his Waltz from the same venue.

It depends on the audience he was catering to. ( Of which I know not ) ,

but as a rule of thumb, any good pro. will design his presentation to suit the occasion .

Terence. The question was, was it good , or was it not. Was it perfection . A pupil will become a better dancer if they follow Luca's dancing and don't to any more than they did. I would hope that as a teacher you would follow the example given and keep to the one discipline for as long as it takes. Would that make them a better dancer. Yes or No.

"Terence. The question was, was it good , or was it not. Was it perfection . A pupil will become a better dancer if they follow Luca's dancing and don't to any more than they did. I would hope that as a teacher you would follow the example given and keep to the one discipline for as long as it takes."

We shouldn't move on to more complicated material too soon, but if we all stayed with basics until we'd mastered them, then nobody would ever dance anything else.

The reason top dancers still work on basics is that they themselves still haven't mastered them.

After a bit of experience, dancers learn to work on multiple things concurrently; we can have material that is challenging due to its complexity, yet also continue to find lifelong challenge in the transparency of the most basic figures.

Ultimately, nobody will fully appreciate how 'advanced' the challenges of the basic material during their first exposure to it. Nor during their second, or tenth. It's only by repeatedly coming back to them over the years that we start to finally grasp how much there is to them. But we couldn't come back to them with that fresh perspective if we hadn't also been working on more 'advanced' figures in the meantime.

Your post was a non sequitor....

I tried to make a point, which I believe I did, that a Demo. is not ALWAYS one way or another , and you went off on a tangent about learning processes .

It was in no way denigrating the performance ( which I have not seen ) only attempting to explain that under different circumstances, it may have been different.

There is an old saying " You cant teach your grandmother to suck eggs ".

And ......... didactisism is seldom the best approach .